#I didn't specify the person's gender so it could be gay if you want

[niamhthefae]

"will you go out with me?"

I stared at the text for a few minutes,unsure of what to say back to him,my fingers typed out 'yes' only to swiftly delete the word. then 'maybe',only to once again delete it. my hands shook and I bit my lip whilst I tried to think. the words seemed to echo in my head

"say no."

"huh?" I asked,not taking my eyes off of my phone screen

"say no" the response surprised me with its simplicity. recently it had begun to spew paragraphs and paragraphs for every situation i needed it. what had begun as something to teach me manners had turned into the most useful thing id ever owned.

"I don't want to" it was the first time I'd argued with the rock. my shaking fingers steadied as I spoke still it repeated "say no"

'yes' my fingers typed. I took a deep breath and pressed the send button

three dots appeared. then went. then appeared again.

":D" I chuckled. all that worry and all he sent was a smiley face.

"you should have said no"

i turned to look at the rock,sat on my bedside table next to my lamp and book. "shut up" it needed to be done,but i was still worried. I'd never defied it before,and what it said was normally right.

the next day I met up with him at school

"hi!" we both said at the same time and laughed. we had english first,macbeth,then chemistry,where he proceeded to make multiple jokes about us,maths,technology and then I had art and he had geography. everything went great and I couldn't have been happier. the smile never left my face so it ached later. but i couldn't help it

yet still,when I got home "you should have said no"

that night I made a decision, I put the rock in a shoe box and hid it under my bed.

we were happy,for a while.

for our first date we went out for ice cream,for our second we went to his and made cookies and had a flower fight,for the third,my birthday, he took me to an art gallery/museum and got me a book I'd been asking for. for the fourth he taught me how to skateboard on his old one.

for the fith he didn't show up.

i sat there in the cafe,fiddling with a pot of sugar and occasionally checking the time.the girl at the counter,she looked the same age as me, gave me a sympathetic smile. she came over to me and pushed a chocolate cupcake on a white plate over to me."on the house. ive been where you are before".i ate it whilst i waited.

by eight o'clock,two hours after we decided we'd meet,he still wasn't there,so I picked up my bag and left.

that night I got home to see my mom, waiting for me. she looked worried.

i screamed.I cried and I screamed but it was no use. the sound of the long beep echoed in my head,our dates played like a movie in my mind. "should have said no" the rock was at home,in the box under my bed. this time it wasn't the rocks voice,it was my own.

i went home that night feeling numb.

"you should have said no" said the rock,now back on its place on my bedside table "you could have avoided this,given the pain to someone else"

"no." I once again replied. fresh tears rolled down my face. I didn't try to hold them back anymore

"if I'd said no I would've spent the rest of my life wondering what would've happened if I'd said yes. so no. I'm happy with my choice to finnaly take a chance and say yes"

if the rock could smile,it would've

"good"

You got a magic rock as a kid that was meant to teach you the “magic words” of please and thank you by reminding you whenever it’s appropriate. Now though it’s begun to recommend whole paragraphs whenever you’re in a sticky situation. The best part is following it’s advice always works out best.

[shinestarhwaa]

DAD!ATEEZ REACTION TO THEIR KID COMING OUT

Sorry I made these a little more specified some may have wanted to, but otherwise it'd be hard to write 8 different ones lol, so I made lil scenarios x

Hongjoong

''You have a boyfriend?'' Hongjoong asked with wide eyes. He stared at his son in disbelief. He was quite the typical 'straight' man, he hadn't ever noticed any signs before, but now that his son told him he was gay everything seemed to fall into place.

''I do, dad, I... I am gay. Like really, really gay,'' the son stammered. Hongjoong smiled and placed his hand on his son's. ''I cannot wait to meet him, kid.''

Seonghwa

Seonghwa teared up as he looked at his son, sitting before him. ''Dad, are you disappointed in me now that I've told you I'm gay?'' His son looked down and hid his tears. Seonghwa gasped and immediately shook his head.

''No, no I could never be, I'm just sorry you've had to struggle with this on your own for so long. No, I'll always love you, no matter who you love, I am here.''

Yunho

''Bisexual, huh? So you play for both teams?'' His casual comment startled his daughter, who was fidgeting with her jewelry nervously. ''Y-Yeah well, I guess so.''

''Cool, do you have a girl you like then? Is that why you joined the football team?'' All night long he asked so many questions out of love and interest, making sure she felt loved and understood.

Yeosang

''Wow, I had never... expected you to be a lesbian, sweetheart... This definitely surprises me a little,'' Yeosang said as he took in what his daughter just told him. ''I-I'm sorry daddy-''

''No, no, I am not mad... It's just unexpected,'' he said as a smile formed on his lips. ''Thank you for trusting me and telling me about it, love,'' he says as he kisses her forehead.

San

His son was in tears as he told him he was gay. ''Can you still love me?'' he had asked, body trembling because of the anxiety. San sighed and patted his head.

''Son, you know I'll love you no matter what. It's important that you are happy, and I don't care if that's with a man or a woman. Plus, I totally saw you kissing your friend on the porch so it's not that big of a surprise,'' he smiles as he pulls him in for a hug.

Mingi

''So...Pansexual? What does that mean?'' Mingi asked, curious after his daughter just came out. ''I am basically just... attracted to any... person, any gender, I don't care at all,'' his daughter said with a smile, happy her father took interest in it.

''Okay. That's cool, that's quite romantic actually,'' he grinned. He didn't make a big deal about it or anything and just let everyone get on with their day peacefully.

Wooyoung

''Sweetie, why are you crying? You know you don't have to be afraid to tell me anything... I understand it's scary to come out but you know I love you regardless of your sexuality... You're my one and only angel,'' he spoke with his sweetest voice.

For the coming weeks he'd never leave her side, making her feel loved and treating her like a real princess. ''So when are you going to let me meet your girlfriend, sweetie? I'll make sure to cook a delicious dinner.''

Jongho

''Son, listen to me,'' Jongho said as his son just confessed his bisexuality, shuddering in fear of his reaction. ''No one could ever take my love away from you, you are my son, I love you and I live for you, that's a given. Nothing is ever going to stop that.''

''I promise I'm still the same person, dad,'' he said as he cried in Jongho's arms. ''I know you are, you are my favourite boy, you're smart, sweet and talented and whoever you love does not matter to me, okay?''

Taglist: @anyamaris @a-soft-hornytiny @whatudowhennooneseesyou @star1117-archives @wooyoungmybelovedhusband @pyeonghongrie-main @woosanbby @dreamlesswonder86 @lemonhongjoong @babesindestroyland @changbinslovelylegs

[boydyke]

when I say I'm bigender I make an active point to specify I'm 100% woman & 100% man 24/7 even if technically my personal experience isn't /always/ that. because it's important for me to stress this aspect of being nonbinary while binary x2 is possible. (being multigender at all inherently makes one nonbinary when the cisnormative binary is exclusive to one identity) it pisses me off every time I see someone say shit about bigender lesbians/gay men like, "only the woman/man part of you is lesbian/gay." (heard that one directed at me) or "well only as long as your other half is nonbinary aligned" (?) or acting like being bigender is only 50% and 50%, that it's unfathomable to be 100% and 100% at the same time, without a line of separation--there is no woman part or man part, (unless the bigendered individual identifies as such) there are no "parts" there is a whole.

and when I want to make this statement, it almost feels irrelevant of me to go into the specifics of how my genderfluidity interacts with my bigender identity. because sometimes I will be 100% man, and I'm still wlw, because I'm never not a woman. and sometimes I will be 100% a woman, and still mlm, because i'm never not a man.

but those who ID as genderfluid but not bigender experience much of the same transphobias. I think my first experience in this flavor of transphobia was when I had sent in an ask to a sapphic specific blog, (i recall it was for wlw entirely, not specific to lesbian wlw) age 14, asking if I could follow if I'm genderfluid but still sapphic. they told me no, because of my relation to being a man, even if its sometimes. and it hurt my feelings, but moreso, it confused me. I didn't really understand why I'm not considered wlw if sometimes I feel like a guy, and i must not be considered mlm if I sometimes feel like a girl, either.

where would that have put me in our community? who would have I been allowed to date? does someone have to be bisexual to feel attracted to me? let's unpack that one and figure out why someone might think so. seems like masculinity must stay with men and femininity must stay with women. identity can be fluid for a lot of people, it's fluid for me, the gender binary isn't so well defined, and I don't understand why my lesbian partner wouldn't be expected to love me unless identifying instead as bisexual, or (if we loop back around to that comment which was made to me, where I'm only half wlw), maybe they only love half of me. or love me sometimes, when I'm more woman than man. maybe they love 50% of me one day, 80% of me another, and some days only a measly 15%. which again, runs on the assumption that I can be separated into parts, percentages, when I explicitly do not experience my gender identity in a way that can be separated by me or anyone. but how can they love someone who identifies as 100% a woman and 100% a man, wholly, always, without making other people uncomfortable? do we push the concept of binary too much for you? do you get insecure when others push said binary? are you afraid or uncomfortable or angry? sit with that feeling for a while. get to know it & understand why you feel it. you should probably figure that bias out.

[thingschangelikemonkeypants]

Talking about gender identity for pride month.

6/23/24

Hey.

So, pride month is almost over and I haven't really done the thing yet where I sit down and analyze my identity as a queer person. Hell, I haven't done that since 2020, I've sort of been on autopilot since the pandemic. But today I went ahead and watched "I saw the tv glow" on my laptop as a little treat. Needless to say all the people on tiktok saying that it "absolutely wrecked" them were not exaggerating. Like, honestly, I got chills or whatever.

The first time I ever "came out" was when I was still in middle school (2014) in my family's old apartment. I told my mom that I liked girls, never really specifying if I was bi or a lesbian or anything. I had privately come out to my cousin and a couple close friends as bi, but it never felt right. It almost felt like saying that I liked guys alongside girls was justifying the queer aspect of my romantic attractions.

Eventually I decided not to lie about this part of me, so I told more people I was a lesbian, something my mother already assumed. And a few years later in 2020 (when i was 18) I told my dad I was gay, he took it well, and everything was okay. Except, it wasn't.

Over those fun years between 2014 and 2020, I had struggled so much with the person i saw in the mirror. I didn't know who I was no matter how hard I tried. I thought "who am I, like actually?". I shut out those thoughts with watching cartoons, drawing in my sketchbook, and blasting music on whatever pair of earbuds I could get my hands on. In my moments of weakness I tried to explain this to my mother, I would tell her I didn't like being a girl or "ugh, being a girl sucks" blah blah blah. None of it ever got through to her though, she just told me I was still figuring things out/that I was confused. Typical parent things to say, it isn't anything I'm bitter about, my mother was always supportive of the whole like girls thing. But she didn't know anything about all this gender stuff, and neither did I - I still don't.

Overall, I have been... unhappy. This lingering feeling of "something is... wrong, I just can't put my finger on it". It's awful not knowing, but I think deep down I always knew.

I don't feel like a girl, I don't feel like a guy - I feel like something different.

I learned about nonbinary people back in 2018, only I had the misfortune of learning about them through kalvin garrah, so I was convinced the gender identity was "cringe". Like what? It was a stupid thought.

After some time though, I really couldn't tell you exactly when and how, I started using they/them pronouns. At least, in my head and on my own. Some cousins used them for me, a friend as well but only sometimes. I put them on social media, my sister still isn't down with all that but that's OK. Even if none of my close friends or parents were okay with it I wouldn't really care, I'm tired of caring so much what other people think. I'm tired of caring about dumb shit like that, I want to care about me.

Happy pride month to all the other nonbinary people out there, I love you and I get you. I'm still so lost after hating myself for so long, so if you have any advice or experiences you want to share please do.

Thank you.

There is so much more that I want to say, but I'll leave it at this for now.

[epickiya722]

Idk if anyone feels the same, but as a bkdk shipper i don't really headcanon them as having a specific label like gay/bi as to say why they would feel attracted to each other. Bc i guess being in love/loving someone the way i see that bkdk do is different from finding someone attractive.

This is why when i see antis say stuff like "How can you say that Dk doesn't like Uraraka" and then show a clip of him being flustered/or some proof that he thinks Uraraka is attractive, i'm like yeah? So what? Why would that disprove bkdk? Uraraka is a super cute bubbly girl and Izuku is a shy little guy that hasn't really been interacting with any girls in a hot minute, ofc he's flustered lol

I'm not saying that these hcs are not valid it's just a personal thing i think abt sometimes sjebwjk

Honestly, when it comes to sexualities, I don't particularly think about them a lot, or label characters.

Not that I don't want to or hate the idea. It's just sometimes when people headcanon a character any sexuality when their sexuality isn't specified in canon, there's always those few people who act as of it's evil and go "no, this character is straight, you're wrong".

It's a headcanon??? Chill out. That person isn't looking for some debate with you, they're just engaging in the media they enjoy.

With that said, it is annoying that some antis will say things like "How can you say Midoriya doesn't like Uraraka" as if to say "How can you say Midoriya isn't straight" and disprove BakuDeku.

For one, why? What's the point? If antis hate the ship, alright. Who in the hell cares? They don't have to "prove" why you hate it.

There are some ships I hate, but I don't waste my time saying why because exactly what do I need to prove? I don't like it, simple as that.

Why do I need to prove AN OPINION? A PREFERENCE?

Second, kinda suspicious to insist Midoriya finds attraction to Uraraka to disprove a M/M ship.

They go so hard to prove that Midoriya is straight, but here's a couple of things.

He could still have an attraction to girls. No one said he couldn't. Hell, some BkDks headcanon him as bi.

Another thing, being flustered around the opposite sex doesn't always mean attraction. I said this in my post about Uraraka. Being flustered is a natural human reaction. You don't have to be attracted to someone to get fidgety. Being nervous is a thing. I did it around boys that I didn't like at all. I was nervous, I like my space, sometimes I didn't expect it.

It was very clear that Midoriya barely had interactions with anyone, especially girls in his first meet with Uraraka. Of course, he's gonna blush around her. He does it with every girl he has came in contact with, Uraraka ain't the only one. If she was, Midoriya wouldn't react the same with Hatsume, Nejire, Fake!Camie, Toga, Melissa...

But of course, the other girls aren't brought up in their "arguments" because it's a matter of ship competition and the sense of wanting to be an asshole.

Like is it so wrong for him to have an attraction to boys and girls? Hm? Why does him having attraction to both genders a problem? 🤨

[eeriehowl]

eredin for the character ask thingy of course! but also maybe auberon? 👀 up to you

thank you so much elis!! i really appreciate it.💛

eredin

sexuality headcanon: gay. i actually tend to block ppl if they ship him with women no matter who he is shipped with because this is my strongest sexuality headcanon in witcher...it's obviously not anything inherently problematic, just makes me personally very uncomfortable, so i curate my experience. gender headcanon: he's definitely masculine and enjoys it, that's all i can say. a ship I have with said character: avallac'h. i'm usually not much of a multishipper, so...that's it. a brotp I have with said character: imlerith! he actually has the opposite effect of ava on eredin though...when ava is around, his impulse control is better, while imlerith makes it worse. they are besties though. a notp I have with said character: ciri. over all else is that i think it's creepy but i can also easily add further to that. i'm sure there is no attraction from either side, ciri has an aversion to anything actually happening between them if her anxiety is anything to go by. i find it strange that people think her attraction to him was genuine. however, this is about eredin, so i will go more into how he acts and feels towards her instead. eredin isn't even slightly attracted to her. the only line that could even slightly indicate that is an offhanded comment... he notes that some prefer being roughly caressed and that he would not personally do something of the sort non-consensually ("only if you permit me"). this p much potentially points out his own general view on sex and i do not think at all that he was actually flirting. he changes the subject without any further ado because he doesn't care for continuing that topic...it was, as said, an off-hand comment. ciri very much specifies that he showed no interest in her or doing anything with her; he stares at her with cold eyes and only thinks about his own shenanigans and straight out specifies how little he thinks of her *twice*...he straight-up says that he doesn't think that she is special in any way, seemingly not even believing that she has any powers at all from the way he talks. explains that he thinks ava & auberon are wrong about her. in conclusion, why people think ciri & eredin would want anything to do with one another is beyond me. a random headcanon: eredin had a decent relationship with his mother before he left her to be independent. he never met his father but that doesn't matter to him and didn't affect him. eredin got his brutal honesty from his mother, she was like that too. she was not toxic in any way though. in the end, he ended up seeing value in the things she had taught him, but did not choose to take her name because it did not seem vital to him that he'd have his origins be clear in his name. she had already given him his own name and he would carry that with him as a reminder instead. eredin wasn't born into a higher up family, pretty much got his recognition by just being an extremely talented swordsman. it was a passion of his. he's got the personality of a natural leader and earned the respect of many despite his sharp tongue...though he was partially feared too and would grow to be revered and feared more and more over time. wasn't much of a surprise when he ended up becoming a general. general opinion over said character: i love him. i didn't give a shit about him in witcher 3 after seeing his face because i thought elves were boring back then...i wanted him to be a monster...and here i am now. he is a type of monster, but very different from what i initially wanted him to be. eredin in the books has lots of layers and can be interpreted in several different ways. he's also very clearly intelligent to a certain degree. game eredin is just all about loving violence and dominance with little to nothing else.

auberon

sexuality headcanon: he's tried everything. gender headcanon: i think auberon is too old to care about his gender. a ship I have with said character: with shiadhal. lara looked at them and hoped she would find something like what they had. she did not truly find it until she got to know cregennan. shiadhal died young, at least for an elf. many depict her as a warrior and i like that idea. a brotp I have with said character: never had many close friends, and many individuals he did consider friends are gone. i imagine he was sort-of friends with avallac'h's mentor. a notp I have with said character: i guess i could say with eredin, because i've seen some of that and it's not for me. doesn't induce disgust in me like ciri with aen elle does so i don't mind running into it much but i don't enjoy it. a random headcanon: his relationship with avallac'h isn't exactly friendly, it's very professional. auberon calls ava "crevan", mainly to express his authority and only partially because that used to be his potential "son-in-law" (or whatever the elven equivalent of that is, at least). general opinion over said character: i have very mixed feelings about him, though i think it leans more towards dislike. he makes me uncomfortable in many ways, which makes it ironic that his gwent card's 3rd stage is my favorite card in gwent....

[the-ace-lesbians]

Bi lesbian doesn't mean what that answer to that ask says though, that would be bad. Bi lesbian is biromantic homosexual which if homoromantic asexuals exist follows logically. Not saying you have to be comfortable with it, I'm still untangling my feelings on it, but it's important to have information when you're talking about these things. As an ace its weirdly close to the 'if you're asexual you can't be gay because your romantic attraction and sexual attraction have to be the same' argument to be entirely comfortable.

I have a lot of thoughts but tl;dr

The SAM shouldn't be used outside of aspec identities, I respect people who identify as bi lesbians but I'm not gonna be social with them, and I feel like the main difference in 'if you're ace you can't be gay' and 'lesbians can't be bisexual' is that gayness does not require sexual attraction, but lesbianism does require no attraction to men.

I maintain that the split attraction model could and should not be used outside of asexuality. It just doesn't work outside of sexuality because it was made specifically to define an identity including a lack of allosexuality or alloromanticism, where you can lack sexual attraction but have romantic attraction to, say women. The SAM works for aces and aros because asexuality and aromanticism do not contradict with queer identity, but benefits in more correctly defining yourself can be had from a modifier being used such as 'biromantic' or 'homoromantic' instead of simply 'bisexual' or 'homosexual'

Issue is, the foundation of being a lesbian is not including men and loving women. Bisexual and lesbian, while of course we share similar attractions and love and experiences, contradict each other if used together to explain a single identity, because one specifically requires the absence of attraction to men. To me, using the SAM to say you're a biromantic woman but you only like women sexually just feels like internalized comphet to an extreme degree - everything about a lot of it (of course not all and not every definition because it's a nuanced discussion) just feels like comphet to me.

Outside of that, the answer from that ask is absolutely one of the many different meanings to the term 'bi lesbian'. I've never even seen it applied to biromantic homosexuals, only bisexual sapphics who don't want to use the term bisexual sapphic.

I've seen plenty of people say other meanings, but the main one I see is people using it instead of bisexual sapphic or any other term we have specifically to avoid including men in lesbianism. It's a label that has an incredible amount of meanings, and it's definitely different to everyone who uses it or talks about it. There is no defining meaning.

I think, personally, the conversation is still different from the aphobic things people say - Primarily because gay doesn't specify sexual or romantic attraction. Like I said above, asexuality does not contradict anything about a lesbian identity. Lesbianism about loving other sapphics and only other sapphics - a loose definition because gender is so strange and confusing, but we can at least all agree that women.

It was absolutely acephobic and arophobic rhetoric that guided the OG hatred and aphobia we saw in the queer community, and it still is, but the reason that it's wrong to say we can't be gay and ace is because we literally, by definition, can be. Gayness and queer love isn't defined by sex, you know?

I do hear how it can sound too similar, and in the beginning that was a big reason I didn't have any opinion. I think the main difference is that in this, one of the labels used is quite literally defined by the lack one thing that the other has.

Even then, I'm not going to campaign against people identifying with the label bi lesbian, and I'd protect them if they needed help, they're still my queer siblings even if I don't particularly feel comfortable with the way they're labeling themselves because that's genuinely just none of my business, and my feelings don't mean anything about their identity!

And, in turn, their identity and feelings have no effect on my identity because I'm always going to consider lesbianism something devoid of men and attraction to men, that's sort of the whole point of it.

I also feel the need to say that I am actively reading more into this because I do want to know more! I have a lot of thoughts, and my main one tends to be that labels evolve and change with time and old definitions shouldn't be gospel while new definitions deserve to change, but at the same time some definitions sort of just... can't be changed.

Just as well, side note, another reason I dislike the term bi lesbian is because I have also seen it used by TERFs to describe sapphics dating trans women or sapphics who have had relationships with men, and I feel like if your label is used for transphobic and hateful purposes maybe we should all use the regular terms we had to describe this identity like 'sapphic' or 'sapphic bisexual' or literally just 'bisexual' because bisexuals aren't inherently going to date multiple genders and bisexuality is a beautiful word and identity with a beautiful history but idk I am definitely biased because I love bisexuals so much

[llovelyletterss]

Uh, can you write a fic and/or a hc thing about a darling that somehow saw yan!mailman killing someone?

I'm not exactly off of break yet.. but I'll do this since its December!! Merry late giftmas :3c .. it seems as though ethan knew what to do with that secret room in the basement, no?

DARLiNG SEEiNG ETHAN KiLL SOMEONE. . . No gender specified. . . Requested by Anon.

tw / cw — Killing/torture, knife mention, blood mention, police mention

You were simply trying to visit Ethan for the holidays, he had given you a spare key to use so you could enter whenever. You wish you hadn't visited.

Ethan was in a 'spare' room talking to a.. you don't think you could call that thing a person anymore. guest, when you had arrived to give him something.

He was shocked, you were shocked, hell even the victim was shocked. It felt as if time had been frozen until Ethan only muttered in distaste and tried to 'explain' the situation as the tied up man was shaking his head and crying,

" this.. this guy— I-I just found him near my home! It's fine.. " He said, " I'm— I'm helping him, I promise! " He continued, trying to convince you while his voice slightly trembled when you two made eye contact, you could see his eyes brighten in color. You grimaced, thinking about what to do before you turned around and running out the room.

Running out the basement was all you could do, anyway. He tried lying to you when you could clearly see his bloodied hands while the guy was sobbing, bloodied with obvious wounds and tied up? You were dense, yes, but you weren't stupid.

You slid into the kitchen and quickly opened a drawer to grab a knife, turning around just in time to see ethan stumble a bit upon seeing a knife in your hands, his knife.

" You— Why were you doing that?! " You asked in disgusted anger, shuffling close to the window as Ethan slowly walked forward, " um. I just.. just— put the knife down!! Please? " He pleaded, genuine worry spread across his face.

You only frowned, swiftly unlocking the window before throwing the knife at him, missing only a little because of him moving. He didn't move quick enough as it gave his left cheek a deep cut.

He hissed in pain and held his cheek as you took this chance to jump out the window, landing in a bush and running away. Grabbing your phone from your pocket and calling the police, knowing that they may call you crazy for this but you doubt that he'll get rid of a body that quick ..—

This is a small town after all.

It's not that good, I know and honestly? Gay

I'm not sure if u realize or not, but this is a more future thing, meaning; you do know of the secret room in the basement since ethan wanted suggestions, but ended up using it for something else in the end anyway. ^_^

I'm, so very tired and I might update this or make a part two but instead of it being a fic/hc its gonna be a.. letter ..

Have a great 2023!

[nenithil]

Hi! When do your think Levi and Hange developed stronger feelings than friendship? Do you think they acknowledge these feelings when they thought that the other person was nearly dead ( colossal explosion/Zeke explosion) or before that?

development of their relationship is not written explicitly, so I could almost only headcanon

When do your think Levi and Hange developed stronger feelings than friendship?

On Levi's side, I said he fell in love with Hanji in Keith's time.

At that time, he had just lost his friends and was very lonely, and Hanji was very warm and friendly to him. I believe they might stick together every day,Levi seems to be fully aware of his special feelings for Hanji,according to au smartpass:Moblit&Levi.

Moreover, Levi can learn the knowledge of titans from Hanji. Hanji hopes Levi can teach her more about the skills of 3dmg. This friendship is good for both sides. I believe Erwin will also feel relieved that Levi can be accompanied by an excellent and reliable person.

On Hanji's side, it's more ambiguous. In my personal feelings, I think Hanji had special feelings for Levi when she claimed that Levi was her best friend.

Because in my experience, I won't specify who is the best friend and who is the second best friend among a group of good friends. After all, I'm talking about friends, not giving awards, hahaha. Besides, Hanji is not a person who likes to think much about personal relationship.

Hanji claimed like that I think it can only be that even if it is only about friendship, Levi is much more special and important than others, so that it can be clearly distinguished.

Moreover, when talking about this, Hanji even blushed and looked very excited, this is not the experience I had. she seemed very proud that Levi was her best friend and talked to her about almost everything.

I think this seems to imply that Hanji's feelings for him, in addition to usual friends, are also mixed with a lot of admiration and wish of being recognized and close. These are all very special to Hanji.

So I think at least Hanji "had a crush on Levi". I imagine that she may pull Nanaba and others to praise and talk about Levi many times, which makes everyone very tired, lmao.

But I'm not sure if Hanji realized her feelings, that how she loved Levi. I'd rather think she's aware of it, but she didn't want to make it clear.

From Hanji's character song, I feel that she is very concerned about the gender stereotypes thing.

She is unwilling to accept the role that society has set for male and female. But the world, even the world of SNK, is still used to it. Hanji may be afraid that what is often called "romantic love" will affect her reason and hinder her freedom.

She said in the interview that her ideal lover is someone who respects her and doesn't need her care, which also reflects her emphasis on freedom. She even said, such people may not exist, this implies her pessimistic expectation towards romantic love.

Especially in romantic love and marriage, people are too used to "men should be like men and women should be like women". As Eren's memory, only Karla and Mikasa do housework, while Eren and Grisha don't seem to want to help.

Even when many people imagine gay relationships, they habitually imagine the role of top / bottom, which is obviously modeled on the traditional male / female.

I think Hanji dislikes all this. Her passion focuses on knowledge and understanding, and she has long abandoned the traditional gender role.

Levi undoubtedly highly respects her and doesn't need her care much (although she cares more about Levi than anyone else). And Levi is even very active in doing housework. Although this is a tiny matter, it can be seen that Levi is definitely not that kind of traditional male.

I think he is actually a very nice lover for Hanji, but at present, this "best friend" relationship is the most ideal and comfortable relationship for her, which is close, equal, mutual trust, and has the greatest degree of freedom. Each other can withdraw at any time if they hope.

Although they haven't formally established a relationship, they actually have everything a nice romantic relationship should have. They are always together. So I think Hanji has no impulse to take the risk of changing all these.

When she faced the most desperate crisis of losing him, her desire for commitment and security exceeded everything, so she had the proposal. The hope behind that is likely to be, please live with me, so don't die, don't leave me alone.

This is just messy headcanon of mine. I hope you enjoy it

[undertale-data]

[Image Description: An Undertale chat box that has “WHY FANS LOVE UNDERTALE” at its center. Next to it are a line chart and an Egg from the Dating Hub on its left, and a CRIME measurer (also from the Dating Hub) on its right. End I.D.]

[Image Description: a pie chart titled, “LEVEL OF LOVE FOR UNDERTALE.” The textbox on the top right reads, “On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the least and 10 being the highest, how much do fans enjoy Undertale?” From the top going clockwise, 12 or 0% chose 5 and below; 23 or 1% chose 6; 98, or 4%, chose 7; 325, or 12%, chose 8; 529, or 20%, chose 9; and 1664, or 63%, chose 10. End I.D.]

It’s clear from all of the data analyzed so far that fans who took the time to answer our survey love Undertale. It is unlikely that they would have taken the time to answer so many questions if they had not, and even less likely that they would have come across our survey in the first place. Naturally, it comes as no surprise that 63% of our responders gave their love for Undertale a score of ten out of ten. 95% gave their love for Undertale a score of eight or higher, and only 12 responders responded with five or below, a number so small that their responses had to be lumped together to be visible on the pie chart. Of those, only 3 responders gave their love for Undertale a score of 1, and based on those responders’ other answers, it is likely that they were only intending to troll. We are very fortunate that the vast majority of responders took the survey seriously, enough so that responses like this are barely a blip in the data.

Now, for our final analysis post of the event, we will delve into the reasons that fans love Undertale so dearly.

(Essay and highlights under the cut.)

There have been countless essays on the impact that Undertale has had on people’s lives. I can hardly add more on the subject than what has already been said, but I hope this summary can provide a brief overview of what stood out among the over two thousand answers given in response to this survey. That said, due to the sheer volume of answers, I could not read every single one in depth—however, I did skim all of them, and some that stood out or were representative of several responses have been highlighted below. If you would like to see what every fan who consented to share their response had to say, you may view the full list of responses here. Note that these responses have not been edited in any way. This document may take a long time to load, as it is over 100 pages long.

(Warnings for mentions of suicidal thoughts in the following essay.)

Several responders loved the theme of choices mattering in Undertale. Whether people played the pacifist, merciless, or neutral routes, they enjoyed how the game reacted to their actions. For some, it even made them consider their own morality. One touching response explained the impact that the theme of mercy made on them. “I realized that Mercy isn't something that's given to those who deserve it. Flowey didn't deserve it. I don't deserve it myself. Shoot, we ALL need Mercy in our lives.” Many fans left similar comments about how the themes of Undertale made them better people.

Undertale changed how its fans treat others, and it also changed how fans treat themselves. The theme of staying determined and the messages of hope in the game were a light to a very large portion of fans. I cannot list all of the fans who said that Undertale helped them out of a dark place, or that they would not be alive if not for Undertale. “DETERMINATION became a metaphor for not killing myself at a really rough time in my life and I’ll always cherish that. Undertale isn’t afraid to go to really dark places but at the same time holds on so tight to its hope.”

Undertale brought fans together in unexpected ways. Some said they met friends or significant others through the fandom. “I wouldn't have met my now husband without Undertale,” one fan said. A different fan who is non-native English speaking mentioned that the game and the fan community helped them to learn English.

It would be impossible to discuss Undertale without mentioning the fan community. Whether for good or bad, many responders mentioned the fandom in their responses. Overall the feelings towards the fandom seem positive, though many made references to “toxic” parts of the fandom without specifying which parts they consider toxic. Others rejected the idea of toxicity in fandom. One response said: “[SLAMS FIST ON DESK] I KNOW MOST PEOPLE SAY THE FANDOM IS TOXIC AND CRINGE OR WHATEVER BUT OH MY GOD. The Undertale fandom, both the UTMV and the actual UT fandom, has been so much fun to be a part of. I've met countless friends because of our shared interest in something related to the game! The art people create can be breathtaking and so inspirational, and the fanfics are so so good!! I've seen people write incredible things for this fandom and it's what made me continue writing!”

One thing that makes the Undertale fandom unique is the way it embraces various AUs. Some fans are tired of AU content, but the majority of responses show a love for the creativity behind AUs. “Roll your eyes at the 50th AU Sans all you want, it's encouraging people to step outside the boundaries of fanart and pushing people to make their own ideas! I mean, hell, it was how I gained the confidence to start making my own original content.” The lack of a judgemental atmosphere seems present in the AU community, according to the responses we saw. There is an interesting balance between AU and canon (sometimes referred to as “classic”) content that another responder pointed out: “The fandom helped keep the game alive all these years, with all of its AUs. Although personally, I always enjoyed AUs that kept characters as close to the classic material as possible (dancetale, outertale) I do appreciate the creativity of the fandom. They almost created entirely new stories with new characters of their own! If it weren't for those people, the Undertale fandom would have probably not been as active as it is now. I do feel like we're getting a resurgence of classic content now too! (In 2021)”

Regardless of the many AUs the fandom has created over the years, the original game of Undertale still feels like home for many fans. They wished they could reclaim the feeling of playing the game again for the first time, but even though we can’t reset time in real life, there is still a special feeling for fans each time they play Undertale. One fan said, “Even the best fics I've read can't capture that feeling of nostalgia/almost-"coming home" that comes with hearing the music and talking to the characters.” This feeling is one that can be cherished time and time again. In the words of another responder: “It always feels welcoming like home or like comfort food that I never grow tired of no matter how many times I go to it.” Others pointed out the strength of the found family trope in Undertale, which likely contributes to this feeling of “home” as well.

As mentioned briefly earlier, the music is part of what makes Undertale feel like home for fans. Even when responses focused on other aspects of the game, many would throw in a comment about the soundtrack at the end. One comment focused on the music said “IT'S SO GOOD like I will literally go through the entire thing over and over and not be bored with it. It makes my monkey brain so happy you have no idea.” Like with the game itself, the music has incredible replay value, an amazing feat considering most of the tracks use the same few motifs. “I think what I like the most about Undertale is how the music attaches you to the story,” another responder said. “They're simple melodies that stick with you throughout the whole game, and they can remind you of both good and bad times.”

If the music sticks with fans in their hearts, then the game’s lore sticks with fans in their minds. Even six years after the release of Undertale, fans are still creating new theories and digging up new secrets. The way the game breaks the fourth wall in particular intrigued many fans and has stuck out through all these years. The awareness that the game shows for the RPG genre makes it memorable. The game plays with the player’s expectations and turns them on their heads, all while reminding the player that they’re in a game. There are few other games that do this on such a large scale, so it’s no surprise that fans cite this as one of their favorite things about Undertale.

Lastly, the LGBT+ representation in Undertale has been a huge draw for fans. Especially in 2015, the sheer volume of non-cishet characters was unprecedented, as one fan pointed out: “It's practically unheard of to see so MANY from just one source, especially during its heyday in 2015-16. Hell, you can't even GET the true pacifist ending without helping two gay couples hook up. It's really nice to see all of them being accepted for who they are and not judged for their sexuality or gender, at least in-canon.” The LGBT+ cast including Frisk, Chara, Napstablook, Monster Kid, Mettaton, Alphys, and Undyne each connected with fans in unique ways. It’s clear how important this is from responses such as: “There are canon nonbinary characters 🥺. i have never seen representation of myself before.” “It made me gay and trans so thanks for that.”

Once again I am overwhelmed with just how much there is to say about Undertale. One responder really understood when they compared Undertale to an iceberg, explaining that there are so many layers to the game that there is something for everyone: “everyone can find something to enjoy in the lore/game regardless of what kind of fan they are! Being able to appeal to various types of fans—from simple happy shipper people to deep dive lorediggers—is the mark of the coolest games!” I would have to agree with them.

It’s been six years, and despite everything, it’s still you. Thank you for reading, participating in this survey, and above all, staying determined.

Highlights:

DETERMINATION became a metaphor for not killing myself at a really rough time in my life and I’ll always cherish that. Undertale isn’t afraid to go to really dark places but at the same time holds on so tight to its hope.

I think the coolest thing was having the opportunity to watch the AU community grow from its bare roots. It's nearly insane how big and complex it's gotten, unlike anything I'd ever seen before. Roll your eyes at the 50th AU Sans all you want, it's encouraging people to step outside the boundaries of fanart and pushing people to make their own ideas! I mean, hell, it was how I gained the confidence to start making my own original content.

i love how the lgbt rep is so naturalized... there are just gay people! and its nobodys business!

The music is my go to answer, but what I really really REALLY love is how the minor characters have so much personality to them when you talk to them. They aren't incredibly important to the overall story, but they're all so likeable and diverse that you just can't help but like them immediately!

I think it was the first videogame I have played that broke the fourth wall that much. Of course there has been other videogames that broke it but just for one or two tongue-in-cheek jokes. The guilt of killing mama goat was also something intense as well that I appreciated as an experience and that I didn't think a videogame could cause on someone.

I love how no character can be seen as completely bad! Everyone builds up Asgore as some horrible villain, but he turns out to be a 'fuzzy pushover' who's broken and just wants his family back by the time you meet him. Then you think Flowey's an irredeemable killer who engineered the suffering of the monsters across many timelines, and he is... but he also used to be the kind and beloved Prince Asriel Dreemurr, traumatized by his death and subsequent rebirth, projecting his best friend onto you.

The fact that choices matter in the game. Your first playthrough and getting the golden ending for the first time. I can never replicate those feelings again, wish I could erase my memories and replay the game from the start.

I wouldn't have met my now husband without Undertale.

(Toxic parts of the fandom aside) The community is possibly one of the kindest I've ever met. Cringe culture is completely dead, and I feel like I can be myself. I felt a very close connection to many of the characters, and I loved consuming content about them when I was in a rough patch in my life.

just everything, the whole game has just impacted my life so much. i know it sounds really lame, but when the game first came out, i would purposely put my hands in my pockets and sway slightly, like sans' idle animation. of course i dont do that anymore haha, but undertale still really impacts me to this day, and i wouldnt have it any other way :)

it made me gay and trans so thanks for that

I realized that Mercy isn't something that's given to those who deserve it. Flowey didn't deserve it. I don't deserve it myself. Shoot, we ALL need Mercy in our lives.

The thing I love most about Undertale is no matter how many times I play or watch a playthrough it always makes me genuinely happy. It always feels welcoming like home or like comfort food that I never grow tired of no matter how many times I go to it. Toriel still makes me feel all warm and cozy in her home, the Skelebros always make me laugh, and I still cry on the inside watching Frisk comforting Asriel. And on the flip side the No Mercy run still invokes the negative emotions in me as well. In short Undertale just feels like a second home to me and I always wish I could stay.

The reader inserts are my favorite way to decompress after a hard day

I think Undertale helped me discover my love for 8-bit games, and made me realize how IMPORTANT music is in video games.

the worldbuilding and character design are my favorite parts of the main game apart from the music! I’m also a huge fan of the random AU music- not for like underswap or underfell i like the stuff where someone makes a megalovania for a random au where gru from despicable me replaces sans as the character. i think its funny

Just... the vibe, honestly? Even the best fics I've read can't capture that feeling of nostalgia/almost-"coming home" that comes with hearing the music and talking to the characters.

there are canon nonbinary characters 🥺. i have never seen representation of myself before.

[SLAMS FIST ON DESK] I KNOW MOST PEOPLE SAY THE FANDOM IS TOXIC AND CRINGE OR WHATEVER BUT OH MY GOD. The Undertale fandom, both the UTMV and the actual UT fandom, has been so much fun to be a part of. I've met countless friends because of our shared interest in something related to the game! The art people create can be breathtaking and so inspirational, and the fanfics are so so good!! I've seen people write incredible things for this fandom and it's what made me continue writing!

There's a scene where Frisk (the player) is going towards what is presumably going to be their death. They will fight Asgore and he will use their human soul to break the barrier and free his people. The music, despite the player's impending doom, is... triumphant. You are not the triumphant one here, and yet, the score invites you to experience the monsters' joy and happiness as they tell you the tale of their subjugation. The monsters are going to be free. This is their victory, but they don't hate you or want you to die. They're just... happy. That scene has always struck me very deeply. I feel it represents the best parts of Undertale.

I loved how well thought out the Geno route was. It really made me feel like I was doing something horrible, and the characters were very obviously reacting to dire circumstances.

I dunno? I like Undertale for it's characters, story, music, secrets and many more. I am not good with Headcanons but I also like the neutral endings and how different they can depending on who you spare and kill

I was very bad at english before, i thought i couldn't progress because i was very shy and not confident. But my sibling and i wanted to have the best experience with this game so we wanted to play it in english. It's this game and the fandom which helped me to make huge progress in english !

THE SOUNDTRACK. IT'S SO GOOD like I will literally go through the entire thing over and over and not be bored with it. It makes my monkey brain so happy you have no idea.

to avoid writing an essay i will say one word. Mettaton

It is like Toby specifically made the games to fit the iceberg meme and it's awesome, everyone can find something to enjoy in the lore/game regardless of what kind of fan they are! Being able to appeal to various types of fans - from simple happy shipper people to deep dive lorediggers is the mark of the coolest games!

I love almost everything about Undertale as a game on its own. The music, the art and especially the characters and how they interact. They made me feel at home. Undertale means a huge amount to me. (I even got a tattoo of the castle when you and MK walk together!) The fandom helped keep the game alive all these years, with all of its AUs. Although personally, I always enjoyed AUs that kept characters as close to the classic material as possible (dancetale, outertale) I do appreciate the creativity of the fandom. They almost created entirely new stories with new characters of their own! If it weren't for those people, the Undertake fandom would have probably not been as active as it is now. I do feel like we're getting a resurgence of classic content now too! (In 2021)

the mystery. toby fox refused to give answers to anything and i think thats very sexy of him.

I just feel guilty for liking it so much when I'm in my 30's. But I recently got diagnosed with ASD, so I guess it explains things a bit. Many ppl consider Papyrus to be neurodivergent, and some adult fans are too, so seeing that makes me feel a bit better.

i think about "Despite everything, it's still you" everyday of my life.

I like how it's just as funny as it can be serious. All routes are this way. I laughed as much as I cried when I played the Pacifist route and then once I opened the game again and Flowey was telling me to let them be happy, I immediately turned off the game. I somehow felt bad.

The Found Family Trope

The True Pacifist Ending is just...man. And the fanworks about saving everyone even when the game doesn't let you? MANNNNNN

I think what I like the most about Undertale is how the music attaches you to the story. They're simple melodies that stick with you throughout the whole game, and they can remind you of both good and bad times.

there's honestly a LOT to love about this game, but i think one of my favorite things about it is just how many lgbt+ characters there are??? i can think of alphys, undyne, frisk, chara, mettaton, napstablook, monster kid, asgore, mad mew mew, the dress lion, the royal guards, and arguably even papyrus off of the top of my head, but im sure i'm forgetting a few from just undertale alone (there's even MORE in deltarune)!! it's practically unheard of to see so MANY from just one source, especially during its heyday in 2015-16. hell, you can't even GET the true pacifist ending without helping two gay couples hook up. it's really nice to see all of them being accepted for who they are and not judged for their sexuality or gender, at least in-canon.

[Image description: A wordcloud in the shape of the capitalized word UNDERTALE. The text is white on a black background, and uses the font found in the game. Some of the most visible words are: Game, Love, Music, Life, AU, Store, Friend, and Feel, which represent the most common words in the essays people wrote about their love for the game. End of ID]

[asexual-means-no-attraction]

Oh, goodness. The recent asks reminded me. At some point I tried to define whom I liked through the genitals (I.e. specified which I liked). I sincerely thought it would be more inclusive, because there were a lot of gender labels I couldn't understand, and choosing some sexuality label always seemed to exclude someone, so getting down to basics seemed at least like something I could wrap my head around.

I can understand that sentiment. With mogai and everything else it can be REALLY confusing. So trying to define attraction by the physical characteristics of male and female without using the terms man or women... Would lead you to the path of using genitals to define your attraction... I get it. But it's not the right direction to go.

No one wants to be defined by their genitals. It's one of the reasons why I hate the "inclusive" language of "people with uturuses" to describe women's issues. As a man with a uturus, I'd much rather someone just say woman. I know which issues involve me personally and which ones don't. It's not leaving me out to talk about the health concerns of periods by using "she" and woman to describe them. Calling groups of people by genitals or organs or bodily functions... It's just dehumanizing. It makes you feel shitty and uncomfortable. You're attracted to a person, not a body part.

That said. I know there was some discourse for example about lil naz x saying "I like dick" or something like that. And people were calling that out as transphobic. IT'S NOT. He still calls himself gay and says he likes men. Him having fun and expressing that by saying he likes dicks isn't him defining his sexuality as attraction to genitals. A majority of men have dicks. And people shouldn't have to watch each and every word they say just to include every possible group in every single thing they talk about. It's ok to say generalized stuff-- like men have dicks. It a generalized statement. It's not excluding anyone cuz its general.

I can say the sky is blue. That's a general statement. But the sky isn't always blue. Sometimes it's white, sometimes it even looks red. Sometimes it's dark. That doesn't mean I'm wrong for saying the sky is blue. It's a general statement. And I don't need go on and on to include every single color that appears in the sky for people to understand that hey! Sometimes it's not blue. But the general statement that is blue is still correct and there's nothing wrong with it. It's common sense.

Saying you like dick is not defining your attraction around a body part. However, specifically saying "I'm vagina/dick sexual" DOES define your attraction to a body part rather then a person. And that's where it gets dehumanizing. Especially since I can see a lotta people using that sorta logic to devalue and misgender trans folk. Like... Its one of those things that is very much a slippery slope. And unfortunately, like with you, it's become a more common thing to see thanks to all the mogai shit going around making gender so much more confusing and complicated.

Honestly, if you're worried about not being inclusive and shit... Just don't use a label. You can literally just say "I like who I like" and leave it at that. You don't have to use any label and you don't owe anyone any information about who you do and don't like. It's better to just live your life and let yourself like who ever you end up liking rather then worrying 10 times over about if you've included everyone. Before when I wasn't out to someone as a man I wouldn't use labels to describe my sexuality. I would just say "I like chicks" and let them make assumptions. Because I didn't want to say I was straight and out myself but I also didn't want to call myself a lesbian since I'm not a woman.

And honestly... The reason why we have different sexualities is because they exclude certain groups. If gay and straight included all the exact same people, then there wouldn't be a reason to have separate sexualities in the first place. It's ok if your sexuality excludes someone, cuz that's the whole point of having different sexualities. The only sexuality that includes everyone is bisexual lol.

[uncle-fruity]

This got really long, so I'm going to put the majority of this reply under a read more line. I want to preface everything by saying that I follow you, I generally like seeing the stuff you post. I have usually gotten the impression that we're more or less on the same side of a lot of issues, but I feel that you may have some biases you should address, exhibited in your reply. I hope you don't read malice into this, but I know I can be quite blunt, so it may come off harsh.

So, first thing's first... The opening paragraph was OP's thesis: "Oh if we didn’t have xenogenders/GNC trans people/neopronouns/MOGAI/etc etc etc then transphobes would respect us." Untrue. Most transphobes are so insanely vitriolic that you could be the most standard, decent, agreeable trans person, and they would still hate you.

So, right off the bat, I would like to know where you or the person you reblogged this from get the idea that we are talking about people who, "scream at you because you did the slightest thing they deemed to be transphobic." OP did not specify they were talking about angry people overreacting at all. We are talking about GNC trans people, people with xenogenders, people who use neopronouns, the MOGAI community. Why do you inherently associate these people with the kind of people who are aggressive and accusatory to (allegedly) innocent/uneducated people? Why do you think a passing binary trans person is not capable of acting the same way? Do you think this immediate assumption has anything to do with an unaddressed internal bias?

I will say that you're not even necessarily right about people being dissuaded from being allies because these Mean GNC People were mean to them. Back before I knew I was trans, I said something to a group of trans folks, questioning some logic in accusations of transphobia (against a different person) in good faith, and these trans people completely took my questions in bad faith (assuming I was cis) and Screamed at me until I started crying. That didn't make me hate trans people as an entire group. It made me do more reading and ask more questions until I understood what offended them. It also made me realize that those particular people fucking sucked as people, who were toxic, and who weren't going to have any *personal* allies if they treated everyone around them like garbage just for being uninformed. (And even then, I don't think that one interaction means they're toxic; I just know that one of them went on to seriously traumatize & abuse my friend and is the definition of toxic, and the others were just sorta cool with it.)

I'm not saying you're completely wrong, because not everyone is like me & I wasn't on the fence, really, just going through growing pains. The world is full of all sorts of possibilities! You're right that someone might be SO on the fence that one trans person being mean to them might sway them in favor of transphobia, but it is not the trans person's fault that this on-the-fencer decided to judge a whole group of people by one rotter amongst them. What I'm saying is that if that's all that took, that person probably wasn't really "on the fence" so much as "looking for an excuse to be transphobic." And if they really ARE on the fence and that swayed them over to the side of transphobia, it follows that they could meet a GNC person who treats them with exceptional kindness and sways them back to the side of giving a fuck about actual humans who are different than them. And since I know many GNC people who are kind and are existing happily, I know this is a possibility. I used the phrase "aggressively queer pins" (example for clarification: "Not gay as in happy; Queer as in fuck you!") to demonstrate that I was talking about people who are out and loud about their gender nonconformity. This is not to say that all GNC folks wear aggressively queer pins, but many do and it's relevant to mention because this might be a benign action that might get them targeted by transphobic people. I could have just as easily cited blue hair but I chose pins, so that's that.

"[Making assumptions about a group of people based on the actions of a few is] not an excuse, but literally everyone is like this. It's a human bias. The same that makes me cringe when I meet a group of cis people now because I know they're gonna be stupid about gender and trans people." -- Sorry, but that's just not an acceptable argument. You say it's not an excuse, but then you excuse them and yourself for acting on biases and making assumptions. It's definitely human to categorize and make judgements based on limited information, but it's our responsibility to consider the limitations of our understanding and to fight the urge to project our own feelings & beliefs onto people who we do not know intimately enough to do so.

Furthermore, NOT everyone is like this. That is an assumption you are making about *every single human* uncritically. Again, I've had things that I'm on the fence about socially/politically/morally, but I don't judge those issues based on the behavior of a couple people from related groups. I've been unlearning my own racial biases and learning media literacy for far too long to fall for that trick of oppression! It is extremely easy to fall into it, though, if you are uneducated about it and not actively working against it, so I will give you that. FURTHER FURTHERMORE, I know that there are LOTS of cis people who can be stupid about gender. Many cis people Do Not Get It and Do Not Want To. But if you're assuming that ALL cis people are going to be like that right off the bat and you avoid them altogether, you'll never find the ones who are cool and do get it and can hold their own in gender conversations. I have several friends who are cis. I have several friends who are trans. All of them are normal about my gender and our friendship. Like, I'm not saying you can avoid all the uninformed/bigoted/transphobic cis people for all time, but it's definitely easier to curate the people you see the most in your life when you get to my age (31). I'm saying don't give the light of day to people who are rude about your gender stuff, be patient with people who are clearly just trying to learn, and embrace the people who are allies -- no conditions required.

"I do think that, if you do want to be respected as a member of the gender you transitioned as with cis people, you need to be stealth. Otherwise, you'll always be on the side, an "exception" or "not quite like them" and treated differently for it. Of course, if your only friends/interactions are other trans people, you won't feel that."

This feels like a limited perspective that you're assuming is universal. My 66-year-old cis male boss respects me as a member of the gender I present. He doesn't fully understand it, but he fully respects it. My cis college friends, who knew me pre-transition, had no trouble accepting and understanding my gender experience and absolutely treat me just like all the other guys, even though I only "pass" some of the time. I don't mean that that's how it goes with everyone. I know what it's like to have my gender disrespected and othered. And the "not quite like them" feeling has been ongoing my whole life because of the autism and family neglect, so I empathize. I don't think the solution is to assimilate. And I don't think being respected by cis people is really even in my Top 10 Transgender Goals of All Time, but to be fair, as mentioned, I'm already armed with the ability to Cope with the Othering.

To that point: I'm not stealth, and I'm not not stealth. I don't shy away from the subject or my identity as a trans person, but I don't bring it up unprompted unless I want to. I've been on HRT for a few years & recently went off it because I'm procrastinating on some blood work. POINT BEING is I'm at a level of androgyny that makes it a little difficult to go stealth. I haven't updated my legal information in any way (name change, gender marker, etc). But people still seem to recognize me as a guy and not everyone clocks me as trans, but some people do. I was regularly passing when I was actively taking testosterone. I also have long hair now, which occasionally gets me misgendered until I turn around and they see my stubble. Anyone scrutinizing my paperwork would know immediately what was going on with me. It's also good to note that I live in a very red state in the US, so it's not like there's a dearth of transphobia here protecting me. I accept there are risks to being like this. This actually gets into what I think is the actual core of the discussion we're having. I understand the argument that it is unsafe to not go stealth because there's a lot of violence directed towards trans people, and trans people get clocked and murdered or otherwise brutalized far too often. However, I think there is a misunderstanding of the GNC experience here. Not everyone is afraid of the backlash. Some people are, indeed, looking for a fight. Others just feel like the risks are worth the gender presentation they want and love to show off. You shouldn't hide those parts of yourself or go stealth or tone down your gender to make the bigots around you comfortable. You should only present your gender in a way that makes you feel comfortable moving around in the world. People will either accept you or not, and there might be consequences to your deviation from the norm -- or not. That's just how life works.

And YES, transphobes are going to hate you for expressing gender "incorrectly" and, YES, having any amount of perceived genderfuckery (EVEN FOR CIS PEOPLE WHO "DON'T LOOK CIS ENOUGH") can get you targeted in a transphobic hate crime. But the amount that someone wants to deal with that is up to the individual dealing with it. Well, and partially whether it's even possible for the individual to pass in the first place. (Again, some cis people don't pass as cis enough.) A lot of people literally cannot go stealth or express a "normal" gender presentation for reasons that are out of their control (no access to surgery/hormones, for example). Some people really love being androgynous or GNC or whatever identity it is they're trying to convey to the rest of the world. Their genderfuckery is exposing more people to new ideas. Everyone who sees them will be faced with the reality that they, too, exist, and deserve to express themselves. Regardless of what everyone thinks gender "should be." The more they push the limits of acceptance, the less you have to hide yourself as a trans person in general. Not everyone is up for that (and that's OKAY!!!) but the people who are are doing us all a great service. Trust that they know how to carry themselves in their own presentation, or have at least considered their options and the risks involved.

The other point is that going stealth does NOT guarantee your safety. Stealth trans folks also have to go to the doctor and can be pretty easily figured out depending on what they're in for. The courts would have records of their legal document changes and past records. Going stealth only protects you as far as it goes undiscovered, and could even get you into some tricky social situations if it ever is discovered. That's not to say that there aren't benefits to going stealth -- there's a whole pros and cons list I'm sure everyone could make for themselves based on their own priorities. It's just that! There are pros and cons to going stealth, there are pros and cons to being gnc/visibly trans, and everyone is going to come to a different conclusion.

"Do you really think that the mental health issues and discrimination faced by non-stealth trans people is lower than the ones faced by stealth trans people? I really doubt it."

On what science is your doubt based? Which study are you about to cite and blow me away with? If MY assumptions are correct, this doubt is based on a gut feeling, or something that you have perceived about your lived experience that leads you to believe this is true, but has not necessarily been studied. If that assumption is false, then my apologies. I also make judgements (it's very human). If that assumption is correct, then please consider that this may be coming from a place of internalized biases against gender weird people. This echoes transphobic classics like "Trans people are all mentally ill! They need to be fixed! That way they'll be normal and happier!" ... The reality is that a LOT of people from a LOT of different groups of people are suffering from and/or living with mental illness. Some may be related to gender-based trauma. Some may have nothing to do with it. There is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to who's the most mentally ill among us. There's a LOT of bad shit happening in the world, as I'm sure you know, and the more it piles on the worse it gets for people's mental health. If the cause of their suffering is, in part, the community around them not accepting them and people attacking them to the point that they react to any perceived slight with hostility, why aren't we standing by them and helping protect them from that shit? Why not encourage people to be themselves and do our part to make the world a little safer for them, just like they do their part to make it a little safer for us? Maybe that would improve the mental health of the group of people you were (in my opinion) quite uncharitable to at the beginning of your reply before turning it into concern for their safety.

"Now it doesn't mean you should kill yourself (please don't), or keep things the way they are currently, or conform to society's standards, but it's difficult to say he's wrong with what he said."

Don't you worry, I'll never kill myself! If they wanna get rid of me they'll either have to do it themselves or just wait for me to live out my life. I think xenogender/GNC trans people/neopronoun users/MOGAI etc etc folks are some of the ones who are pushing against the way things currently are, and who are not conforming to society's standards. If you WANT to change the way things are, we need them to be alive and thriving and living out loud. If you WANT to release the pressure to conform to society's standards, then you cannot apply social pressure to get people to conform based on your personal comfort level. And if you TRUST THEM to handle themselves and you don't write them all off as people who immediately get unreasonable and angry, or who have no idea what they're getting into, then maybe we can get somewhere. Personally, I'd say that it's actually very easy to say he was wrong with what he said. It's presumptive, fearmongering bullshit that prioritizes one extremely limited perspective over the lived experiences of countless gender weird people. It's asking people to deny themselves the right to make a decision they might regret, which is an extremely pervasive anti-trans talking point to deny trans people hormones & surgery because they "might regret it." It reminds me of the radfem take that if transmascs go on testosterone, their bodies will be ruined and they'll regret it (implied: when they change their mind), so we have to protect them by taking away the choice altogether. Even so, I will concede that I was wrong to call it a radfem take. I read over it again, and it is not radfem in any way aside from the vague associations I'm perceiving, and certainly he did not intend it to be. He also responded to me, and made it very clear where his stance on feminism in general was. I don't know if I'll bother responding to his, since I made all the important points here, and I think you might be a little more receptive to what I'm generally saying. At least, I hope so. But, yeah. Not radfem, just a Regular Bad Take. Anyway, this has gotten quite long at this point. Look, I know I kinda went hard in the paint on this one, and I'm sorry for how lengthy it got, but I wanted to make my point and address yours. Thanks, if you actually read through it.

”Oh if we didn’t have xenogenders/GNC trans people/neopronouns/MOGAI/etc etc etc then transphobes would respect us.” Untrue. Most transphobes are so insanely vitriolic that you could be the most standard, decent, agreeable trans person, and they would still hate you.

I’m a fairly basic trans man, online and off. I tone my gender down even more for work. I have short hair, facial hair, I wear pretty standard non-fitted pants and t shirts with some manner of compressive undergarment underneath, and I go by my fairly basic, common masc name. The only difference between me and my cis coworkers is that I openly engage in good-faith discussions about my being transgender when brought up, and I have a “he/him” pronoun pin I like to wear.

I have one coworker who I’m well aware has never gendered me correctly. I have assumed it was an intentional, bad-faith decision (because of other, unrelated-to-me conversations he has had with coworkers), but I’ve never really cared enough to bring it up to him. I figured, “if this is intentional, that’s his issue. I’m not interested in trying to change his mind.” I’ve reached a point in my transition to where I don’t really care that much if some random person doesn’t respect me or my gender, because I don’t need every stranger’s approval to be happy with myself.

With all that being said, I’ve treated him the same as I have every other coworker. I’ve been civil, I’ve been agreeable, I’ve still been friendly to him and haven’t gone around the workplace intending to smear his name. (Yes, I have discussed his behavior to those close to me who have asked, but I’ve kept it very private and said that as long as he doesn’t say anything outwardly malicious, I don’t really care about his behavior.) He has been outwardly friendly to me, too, telling me about his past careers, showing me pictures of his family, we’ve talked about our hobbies and other things we enjoy.

Still, after all of this, he has given up the ghost and decided to gossip about me negatively to coworkers. I won’t go into detail about what I’ve been told he said, but it was all explicitly transphobic and pretty aggressive. I’ve never gone out of my way to make him mad, relating to my gender or not, so it’s a little out of nowhere. I’m not particularly surprised by this, but I’m more surprised that he would be bold enough to say everything out loud when working for a company that has explicit protections for trans people in place. He was reported fairly quickly, without me ever knowing what occurred. The only reason I found out about everything is because I overheard a manager discussing it with a concerned coworker from my department.

So, if you take anything away from this, let it be that no amount of friendliness, gender-conformity, or civilness with stop a transphobe from taking their transphobia out on you, and it’s not your fault or any other trans person’s fault. Don’t victim blame trans people who become the subject of someone’s transphobic hate, because a transphobe is dedicated to harming trans people regardless of whether they blend in with cis people or not. Don’t use a transphobe’s needlessly malicious behavior as a reason to harass other trans, GNC, nonbinary, or otherwise gender diverse people.

[lesbianslovebts]

Is there really a difference with pansexuality and bisexuality?

Am I not bisexual enough if I’m only attracted to cis men and women? I’m all for trans right and absolutely support and love them but I’m not attracted to them.

What does that make me?

Also I already feel less of a bi or just not authentic bisexual because some people tell me since I’m ONLY attracted to women sexually, it’s not as valid.

I’m so confused. Am I even bi? Because I don’t feel I’m straight at all

I want to start with the caveat that: I am NOT bisexual, I am a lesbian, I am 26-years-old, I do not know jack shit about the history of LGBT terminology because they don't teach us this stuff in school, I have never met an elder LGBT person in real life, I don't know where to find credible resources with all the answers both gay and trans, and I am not sharing my own personal, die-hard opinions here, but my current understanding of things that may very well change if I am given new, more accurate information. So! Let us begin.

First, you told me that you support trans rights and love trans people. That's good! What's not good is that you made a blanket statement saying that you are not attracted to trans people. Trans people are as varied in their looks and personalities as cis people, so the only way you could definitively say that you will never find a trans person attractive is if you have an issue with transness itself, and that is transphobic. To be honest, when I was ignorant and confused, I used to say the same thing as you. When you're raised in a cisnormative, transphobic society, transphobia is grilled into you from the get-go. This includes trans people themselves. That's why so many of us deal with internalized transphobia. But after learning more about the trans community and realizing that I'm nonbinary myself, I now know that I was wrong to say such things and have accepted that I am indeed very attracted to transfem and transmasc sapphics alike.

Second, I believe that bisexuality and pansexuality are currently used interchangeably. Bisexuality is a term with more history, for sure. I have seen some bi people share that they feel the pan label was created out of a misunderstanding of bisexuality. When I was a teenager, my peers in school and online said that bi people liked men and women, and pan people liked everybody, including trans people. And that is inaccurate. Bisexuality is not trans-exclusionary, and if a bi person says they're not into trans people, then they're just a transphobe. The term pansexuality may or may not have been coined to explicitly include trans people (again, I'm not sure), but it is not actually more inclusive or morally superior to bisexuality. I remember "hearts, not parts" and "personalities, not gender" being almost a slogan of sorts for people who used pan instead of bi back in the day, but that always irked me. As a lesbian, I don't focus on "parts" either. And it's insulting to imply that people who aren't pan focus too much on gender. It's not like I can help that I'm not attracted to men, and I very much take personality into consideration when it comes to women lmao.

Third, do you mean you are into women sexually but not romantically? This could potentially be internalized homophobia, if you're a woman. (I don't want to assume, of course. You didn't specify.)

Please do not reblog. Discourse blogs DNI.

[scarlethyena]

So for a few years now there's been this meme of like "this person never married and only ever lived with this person of the same gender, they were obviously gay but historians will call them besties/roommates" and it's been annoying me for a while so I want to talk about it. 

One thing I should clarify up front is: while queerphobic historians certainly exist, there’s also plenty of people in the field who will acknowledge historical figures as gay by our modern standards. I say this as a history major and someone who's at least relatively acquainted with the study. These conversations happen all the time.

But see, notice how I phrase that: gay by our modern standards. I specify that because one thing you'll very quickly pick up if you study history is thinking about things from the perspective of the time while trying not to apply modern-day perceptions too much. Because you can't really fully understand an event, conflict, or in this case a person, without first understanding the broader socioeconomic context, right? So it follows that applying more modern ideas of gender and sexuality could potentially lead to confusion. 

Let me make an example of Alexander the Great to explain what I mean here: he was gay by our modern standards. He loved another man, and we even know which positions he preferred in bed. Cool. But would he have identified as gay? Our answer is no, because the ancient Greeks did not have the same ideas of sexuality that we do. From what I understand, they didn't really separate people into different labels based on who they're attracted to. So the question technically has multiple answers. 

That's just one example but you get what I mean. Different cultures have different definitions of gender and sexuality, and those same cultures will inevitably change those definitions over time. And, hell, even within the context of certain societal expectations, people may find that they have their own distinct relationship with these concepts which differs from cultural norms.

And all of this isn’t to say that you shouldn’t apply modern-day thinking to history *at all*. Because that sort of thing is basically inevitable. Yeah, we’re always going to come from a modern perspective. We’re all biased, it came free with your consciousness. This is more just something to keep in mind.

So all that said, the question is just as much about how we would define this person if they were alive today, as it is how that person would’ve defined themselves. And, frankly, there aren’t always easy answers! Because sometimes we just don’t know enough about how that society may have thought about these things, or maybe we don’t have enough writings from the person themselves to figure something like that out. Maybe we’ll find the answer with more investigation, or maybe it’ll remain a mystery forever. History nerd rambling over.

[smallcrystals]

As a non-Latine POC, you probably shouldn’t be chiming into a conversation about Isabela and lesbian headcanons, especially when a lot of those headcanons originate from Latine fans. As a Latine person myself, it feels an awful lot like you’re trying to speak up on an issue you know nothing about because you are unfamiliar with Latine culture. It also invalidates queerness and positions such headcanons as being “white,” which is already an issue within Latine culture. An alarming number of homophobic and transphobic Latines claim queerness or gender nonconformity is inherently white or something white people created, which invalidates queer, trans, and non-binary Latines. Again, as you are not part of any Latine culture, you really don’t have a right to claim that lesbian!Isabela headcanons stem from white people. It’s actually incredibly disrespectful, now that I think about it. You mean well, but please be careful when making blanket statements for other cultures.

hey! first of all, i definitely understand what you mean by claiming that queer headcanons all come from white people and how that's really harmful! elder people from my cultures also say the same thing and i'm really sorry that i didn't specify who i was talking to in my post clearly enough

i did mention a twice in the post that it is okay to headcanon isabela as a lesbian! the point of the post was so white people could stop reading the movie as solely queer, you know? and stop viewing it solely based on a universal experience of poc (arranged marriages).

that's what the first line of the post was trying to say 😭 i get if it wasn't that clear but that's what im implying with the line "you shouldn't use her dislike for an arranged marriage as an analogy for her being a lesbian"

yes, people can dislike arranged marriages because they are a lesbian but that isn't the only reason. people seeing that as a definite "sign" of her being a lesbian erases why a lot of us don't want arranged marriages.

you've seen the posts, right? "this movie is about being the only gay person in the family" and a bunch of other stuff that are posted by white people. when i first saw the posts abt the movie all i really did see was lgbt stuff and barely anything about what the movie was actually about

you can have queer headcanons alongside the movie, i don't see a reason not to! and especially if you are also latine, you definitely can because this is your movie.

poc can allow both of these things to coexist bc that's basically what we've been doing our entire lives. this isn't an issue for us. white people haven't had arranged marriages in such a long time that the only connection they have to why we wouldn't want arranged marriages is that we're queer and nothing else.

and if i say it's because we feel pressured to marry someone for our family, they'll say that sounds like a forced marriage when the concept of arranged and forced overlap and are so blurry.

i did try to word the post as best i could but i understand it can come off weird. i'm really sorry about that and thanks for bringing that part to my attention!

[mapleandgingeroatmeal]

So I'm feeling the need to jump in and defend The Red Cross a lil bit here just I think they do good work and donating blood is an important thing and it would suck if queer folks who could didn't bc they had the wrong idea.

The msm policy (if you're a male-identifying person who's had sex w another dude in the past three months you can't donate because of course all gay men always have aides) is abhorrent and homophobic, but it's actually an FDA government policy! The Red Cross has to obey it unfortunately or they wouldn't be allowed to operate at all.

From the language their website uses with their LGBTQ policy stuff (i.e including ace, intersex, non-binary people and specifying that gender is unrelated to biological sex), it seems like they are pretty inclusive and understanding of queerness.

If you want proof in actions beyond language, I would ironically argue that the op's screenshot is the Red Cross putting their money where their mouth is by acknowledging someone's gender identity to the extent that rules around men still apply to them. It's the best they can do in a shitty situation. There's also a massive study that they're funding to try and bring more attention to the shittiness of this rule and hopefully get some government heads turning towards it more in the future! You can read more about it here, and I encourage doing so because it's an important and just very interesting study

red cross's homophobia being trans inclusive is honest to god blowing me away